So, what's it all about?
Welcome to the NEW Business Backstage Series on the Mindset and Method podcast!
So many conversations happen behind the scenes in my Immersive Coaching Experience, Altitude, as my team of business growth experts and I chat about all things mindset, business simplicity and sales, we knew we just had to record them so you could listen in.
No-where else can you take such a detailed peek behind the curtains of a business growth experience than right here on ‘Business Backstage’...
In this episode, I chat with Marie Coombes, a renowned calm mind coach with a rich background in mediation and conflict resolution.
Our discussion centers around the profound impact of trauma and backstories on business progress. Marie emphasizes the crucial role of supporting individuals in conflict resolution and promoting a calm mind as the foundation for success in the business world.
Drawing from personal experiences, we share our own journey through trauma, shedding light on the four common responses to challenging situations. We explore the importance of identifying self-limiting beliefs and creating a safe environment to foster progress in business ventures.
Marie provides invaluable insights into various techniques that can aid in healing the brain and building new neural pathways. From cognitive behavioral therapy to somatic work, meditation, and breathing exercises, she offers a holistic approach to address the effects of trauma.
We get deeply personal as we share powerful stories of mindset shifts that helped us overcome obstacles to forge our own paths in business. The importance of reflecting on childhood behavior and utilizing the five-second rule to respond effectively in times of struggle are highlighted as key tools for personal growth.
What can you do NOW to grow your business?
If you're ready to take your business to the next level, but don't quite have enough confidence - or know how to actually do it - you can now apply for a FREE strategy call with our fully trained and experienced Altitude coaches.
On your Free Strategy Call, your allocated Business Growth Expert will...
✅ Help you get more clarity on the potential your business has for growth
✅ Identify the biggest challenges stopping you from getting those results right now and identify the blocks that might arise when growing and scaling your business
✅ Explore your next-level offers and uncover the most scalable business model that will help you reach your goals
✅ And - help you plan your next steps to grow a business you love, level up your income - and do it all in a way that is fully aligned and works in harmony with your life.
Apply now by clicking the button below...
And to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, subscribe here
SUBSCRIBE ON APPLE
FOLLOW ON SPOTIFY
Hello and welcome to the Business Backstage series here on the Mindset and Method podcast. Business Backstage is where I invite my incredible associate coaches, the ladies who work with me on my Altitude Immersive Coaching experience, to chat about what's going on in the business world right now. Our conversations are designed to help you fast-track yourself to your next big business goal instead of having to figure it all out by yourself.
So what's Altitude? Altitude is how I work with my clients to turn their stressful, over-complicated, passion-led ventures into enjoyable, easy-to-run and consistently profitable businesses. I do this with the support of an amazing team of associate coaches who we pull in to give that extra level of expertise and support for our clients. And these incredible ladies are the ones who will feature here on Business Backstage.
Okay, let's dive in. Thanks so much for listening to Business Backstage, the series where I invite my associate coaches to chat about what's going on in the business world right now, so you don't have to figure it all out for yourself. Today, I have the amazing Marie Coombs with me, who is one of our coaches on our Altitude experience, and she is a calm mind coach. And we're going to be talking about backstories and trauma and how our past can either help or hinder us in our progress moving forward with our business.
So massive welcome to you, Marie. So you call yourself a calm mind coach, so tell us a bit about you and what that actually means. So I'll go into my backstory when we get there, but in terms of why I started calm mind coaching, I was in a position where I was starting to see trauma everywhere, whether it be that person's backstory or whether it be in terms of workplace trauma, which is the main place that I saw it. So what I was seeing was people reacting emotionally, not really understanding why, and not really understanding how to deal with it. So when I was in a position to be able to go self-employed, that was the first thing that I thought, right, I want to go and help people because I know what it's like to be hijacked by that emotional side of our brains. So that's where calm mind came from, obviously as an altitude coach, it's got some real strong connections with the kind of journeys that our coaches are taking, that the people that we're coaching is taking, but that's literally where it came from. Amazing. So tell us a little bit about your background as well, because I know you're a mediator as well, and yeah, what else do you do? So what do I do?
Probably a long list, half of which I'm going to forget. So yeah, I mediate. I used to work in a large corporate organization. I was a full-time mediator when I worked there. So conflict resolution was really a strong passion of mine, and where I saw a lot of the trauma, actually. And I was finding, so a little bit about my backstory. I was the victim of childhood trauma. I went through bullying, quite severe bullying at school, and a few other things as well that all interconnected. So from the age of seven, I've had my own trauma story. I've since been re-traumatized at work through workplace bullying, which obviously took me straight back to where I was as a child. And I've just been hyper aware of where I've seen those trauma responses in other people.
So in the mediation space, people are traumatized by the breakdown in relationships that they have at work. Some people are quite severely traumatized. I've seen signs of PTSD, actual post-traumatic stress within a mediation setting and within conflict coaching. But yeah, in terms of the other stuff that I do, it's mainly around that conflict resolution and calm mind space. I pretty much support anybody sort of within those two spaces. Yeah. And I think that's a really good point because a lot of the people we work with have come out of corporate, and a few of those have come out of corporate because of some kind of backstory that they have in corporate and some kind of trauma that they've experienced, whether that is not being treated the way they should have done after having children in corporate. So yeah, that resonates with me a lot because I do hear that a lot in terms of people not wanting to go back into corporate after having kids as well. So yeah, there's that other kind of dimension to that there as well. Okay. So what we're talking about today is really about passion-led business owners.
We find that we work a lot with passion-driven women. And I think when you're passion-led, typically that means you have a backstory. Something has happened to make you really passionate about what you do. And that backstory that you have, whether that's minor trauma or major trauma or however you want to kind of scale it, it can either help you or hinder you or probably more likely do both of those things for you in terms of making progress and growing and scaling a business. So that's what we're going to dive into a bit today. I've shared my story online before. What got me into what I do was a significant period of trauma where my daughter was diagnosed with a rare condition, which literally ripped our world apart. But from that, and what I've learned from her being so strong, going through that process and taking whatever I can take from that in terms of the lessons that I've learned, that has given me way more motivation and drive to do something really inspiring with my life and push through those, what will people think of me? Maybe I should stay in a proper job, all of that that I used to have. It has really taken a significant period of my life that shook all of that up to make me do what I do now.
And we find that is so, so common. And I know you have your own backstory as well. I mean, is there anything else you can expand on in terms of your backstory? The main thing for me, and it's one thing that's driven me. So the childhood trauma I went through really started around the age of seven and I was absolutely determined that I never wanted anybody to struggle the way that I did because I went undiagnosed for 11 years. The first I knew that I actually had a mental health condition was walking into my university health centre at the age of 18, wondering why I had suicidal ideation. It was only off the back of the conversation that I was then diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety and PTSD at that point. So I made it, a mission sounds a little bit cliche, but I've made it my mission to make sure people don't feel as alone as I do, or I did, and feel supported and get the support that I never had. It took me a while to get to a place where I thought about what that might look like. And obviously I spent 17 years in corporate before I made the jump into being self-employed, but I've been self-employed now since 2019. And that mission has driven every single thing that I've done since, both in a good way and in a bad way. Yeah. And I love the word mission.
One of the things we do in Altitude is really set a company mission, a business mission for people understand their values, their drivers and their mission in life and in their business as well. And I feel like that's really important, especially for those passion-driven women to know exactly what they're working towards and why they do it, especially when it can get hard, you really need to tap into that mission. So yeah, I love the word mission and yeah, whether or not it sounds cliche or not, we do it.
It's all right, I'll stick with it then. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So what we wanted to dive into really is how do you help people and why can this backstory that you have of whatever you've been through, why does that hinder you in your business? Like, why is it, it can motivate you and we've talked about that, but it can also really hold you back.
So why is that? And how do you help people with that? So a little bit more about my backstory. One of the reasons, one of the things that came out of my trauma is that I get very heavily into the people-pleasing mode. So one of the biggest things I've had to deal with as an entrepreneur, as a small business owner is not wanting to give away more than I should, or not pricing myself well enough, not pricing myself to the level that I need to, because I want people to like me. I want people, I want to please people all the time. Yeah. And that's a typical example of one of the 4F responses. It's the fawn response. It's the one that doesn't get talked about as much. So we hear quite a lot about fight or flight mechanisms, but fawn is one of the emotional responses that we have to a situation where we feel threatened.
More often than not, not physically threatened. Our lives aren't under threat. However, the chimp part of our brain, the primal part of our brain, once it deems it a threat, immediately puts us into one of the 4F.
So mine is fawn. I've also been known to flight as well, which is run away from a situation. So I have, on a couple of occasions, actually not followed up on opportunities purely because I've been too scared to, or because of my emotional response to that situation. So there's an example of flight as well. Fight is about responding in a negative way, sort of quite passionately. So it's where that passion becomes negative rather than positive. It becomes something that gets in your way rather than being something that drives you forward. And the other one is freeze where you literally like rabbit in headlights.
I don't know where to go. I'm stuck. I don't know how to move forward. I found myself in that place a couple of times, but my key ones that I tend to navigate towards more often than not are fawn and we all have one of the 4Fs that we will naturally navigate to because of our backstories.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think our backstories kind of create that belief structure that we have about ourselves. And yeah, we've been talking, we were talking about that with the lovely Emma Jenkins that, you know, very well as well on a, on another episode of Business Backstage. And that belief structure that we have about ourselves, yes, the trauma or the backstory can motivate us, but fundamentally the beliefs that we have about ourselves could be quite subconscious. We can, we might not know about that. And those are the things that can often hold us back as well. Do you find that with your clients? That is those that, that the backstory kind of creates the beliefs that you have about yourself. And if you don't know about those and you're not intentional about working through those, they can also hinder you as well.
Do you find that? Yeah, I do.
I mean, I've, I've had a client recently who she's had a diagnosis of PTSD herself and she's constantly stuck in freeze mode. So she's in a position at the moment where she's literally stood still. She can't move forward. She can't even, she can't move backwards. She just cannot move in any direction. And that's been a real challenge in terms of coaching her at the moment, because the key thing that we have to, that I've had to do is encourage her to feel safe to start with, to be able to move out of that freeze mode. So when we get stuck in one of those four F's, the reason why we get stuck is because in that moment, we do not feel safe. And what I do through coaching, the very, very first thing that I do is I create a circle of safety. The very first thing that I do. And that circle of safety is a combination of activities that we do together. It also includes support from the wider support network, people that they trust, whoever that might be inside work or outside of work.
And we create that space alongside some breath work as well. We create that space for them to feel safe so that actually when that four F response comes along, regardless of which F it is, you actually have some tools and tips to be able to go, right, I can step back from that. I can look at it slightly differently. And then I can potentially move forward. So she's now getting to a place where when she goes into freeze, there are three things that she does that we've worked together to tailor them to what works for her. Three things that she does that will get her back to a place of, okay, I'm not, I'm not under threat. I am safe right now. I can move forward and she's making baby steps forward, but she is moving forward now. Yeah. And that's so powerful as well. I think when clients can see that they're moving forward with something so emotionally driven, that's a massive step for them as well.
And I think also, you know, in terms of why it potentially hinders business people in general, I think there's a lot of those beliefs that hinder your business progress as well. So maybe beliefs around money, beliefs around sales, beliefs around your own potential, beliefs around your self-worth, which we've kind of touched on as well. And I think maybe taking those clients to that position of safety can then open up that conversation to identify what those beliefs or, you know, what some people would call self-limiting beliefs are. And I think there's so much power in identifying people's self-limiting beliefs. I think that's 99% of the work is actually helping people find out what those beliefs are. So, you know, I love what you're saying about taking people. And the first thing is to create that feeling of safety for them, because you're never going to be able to do that mindset work in terms of identifying the mindset blocks unless they're in that position of safety and their guard's down a bit and they can explore, OK, what are these beliefs?
Where did they come from? Why do I have them? And recognize, OK, these are just beliefs.
They're not a fact. It's not like the grass is green. It is a belief, which means you can change it because it's not a fact. And then working through that. So what do you find is like the typical, maybe self-limiting beliefs that people have in this space of passion-led female business owner? Do you find that there's a few that regularly come up? I think for me, there's a few around money. There's a few around what success means and the judgment of others. There's the people-pleasing one, not putting your prices at a point where it's going to help you get to your goals, but keeping them affordable because of the state of the world right now and all of these kind of things. If you could bring up a couple of common ones.
Do you have those we can talk through a bit? So for me, it's actually there's a couple of phrases that actually come up over and over again, which link directly into self-limiting beliefs.
The first one is I can't. I can't do that because. Nine times out of 10, the because actually is, in the nicest sense of the word, ridiculous, but they've convinced themselves I can't because of that. And that comes from a belief, doesn't it? That because, it's the because. And quite often when I'm chatting to people and they say something like that, I just say because. It's just that one word and that makes them think, okay, there's got to be a because here. And that conversation can often open up some really good conversations. And I think that because is always linked to a belief that they have about themselves. Maybe people like me don't do things like that or because I'm just not a confident person or because I'm not worthy of that level of money or because success to me means being really stressful and having no time for my family. There's always that belief that tends to be in the because.
Do you find that as well? Because I love those kind of conversations. Yeah, absolutely. And usually the because for me is moving them into a space where they don't in that moment feel safe, which again is triggering the 4F response. Yeah. And if you aren't feeling safe, your logic brain cannot kick in because it's stuck in the emotion. So absolutely asking the because question actually forces in a sort of weird, I don't know the whole neuroscience of it, but it kind of forces the brain from moving away from the emotion. It's asking it a logic question. Yeah. Because why do you think that is?
Tell me more about that. And that then engages the logic side, which is the point where the brain goes, hang on a minute, maybe that's not true. Yeah. And the next question to that is always my favorite question, which is, okay, why do you believe that? Yeah. And so if it's a because people like me don't do things like that, or because I'm just not a confident person, it's then exploring, okay, why do you believe you're not a confident person? And that then opens up a whole nother layer of conversation where people just don't think about it. It seems really simple and logical, but people don't give themselves the time and the space to actually think about, okay, why do I believe this? This isn't a helpful belief. And it's probably not true in lots of different ways.
So why am I choosing to believe it? And that is a really powerful position to get people into really then starting to question why they have that belief about themselves. I bet you love that moment too, because that is a moment I love when we're doing like mindset stuff. Yeah. When people get to that point, I know that they're starting to feel safe because they're opening up that side of their brain. And that's the point where I can get into the reintegration and the reconnection side of what I do, which is about putting all those feelings back in the body where they belong and putting the thoughts back in the brain where they belong so that everything's where it should be. Once I get people to a point where they're giving that because, where they're digging deep, that's when I know that they feel safe with me to be able to let that stuff go. Yeah. So talk us through a little bit about putting the feelings back and the thoughts back where they belong.
That seems really intriguing. Yeah. I'd love to hear you just expand on that a little bit more. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's been loads written in the past about how the body feels every thought that we think. If you think about every thought that you've ever had, I guarantee you've had a bodily response to that thought. It's on a sliding scale.
Sometimes it's a, Oh, I felt, Oh, okay. It's gone. And other times it's like, it sits with you, especially if you've got something like anxiety or what have you, it can feel, I get pains in my chest when I suffer from anxiety. And that comes from a thought process that, Oh, I'm scared. I, I've got this thing going on. It's three o'clock in the morning and I've got a podcast to record Jenny tomorrow.
There was kind of a, I didn't have a 3am thought. But what we often forget because the body feels every thought that we feel, as Kolk said, the body keeps score. Yeah. Happens continuing to feel those thoughts in the body. Every time something then happens, your body has a response and your brain then catches up. Yes. So it's reinforcing those thoughts.
So it is about brain healing. When we go through stress and trauma, our brains actually shrink, the logic parts of our brain actually shrink and the primal part takes over. So we need to be able to give our brain space to recover that thinking part of the brain. And I do that through, you can do it through CBT. That's why cognitive behavioral therapy is used a lot in relation to anxiety. That's a typical example of where the body and the brain are trying to work together to heal the brain. But it's also about helping that person understand those responses, doing somatic work. So doing work with the body, not just with talking. And what that does is it naturally over times reintegrate. It's another reason why meditation is quite often prescribed in terms of depression and anxiety, because it's trying to reconnect the mind with the brain.
Breathing work quite often talked about because it's all about reconnecting. I go a little bit deeper in terms of those kinds of things, but that's essentially what we're trying to do. We're trying to reconnect the two, but at the same time, giving the brain chance to heal and to be able to take on new information and build new neural pathways. I think it takes something like three, three weeks to 21 weeks to build new neural pathways. So it's not a short process and it's something that people have to stick out and be committed to. But if they are committed to it, it can have a real impact on somebody's wellbeing and way of life.
Yeah, I love that. And it does take a while, but when you, and sometimes I find, and I've had this in my past personally, but I've also had this with clients as well. After a few weeks or months, they come back to you and they go like, my default on how I think about something has changed.
And I've just noticed it. And it's like, okay. And I'll give you an example of where it happens for me. I used to be a real people pleaser and I used to really worry about how other people felt. So let's take a really simple example of like road rage, for example. If somebody was road rage towards me, I would sort of think about that for the rest of the day. I would worry about what I'd done wrong, what that person thought of me, you know, oh my God, have I done something stupid? Like I'm quite a good driver typically, so I don't like, it's not normally me, but I would always take it on for me.
What does that say about me? But I did a lot of mindset work. Obviously after my daughter was diagnosed, I really got addicted to mindset and psychology. And now my default is what's happened in their life to make them respond like that. Like I don't take it on me at all. Like I think, oh my God, like what's happened in their day that has made them so at that level where something little like, you know, what they think I've cut them off or something has pinged to them right off the scale. And that change in that initial reaction to something is so massive. And that's like, not just road rage that happens right the way across the board with anyone's, you know, conflict or point of view that I disagree with. I don't take it personally. I don't mull over it. It doesn't cause an emotional reaction for me anymore.
It causes a reaction like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder what the psychology behind you acting like that is. Like, oh, can I do anything to help?
Like what's happened? And that has been such a massive dramatic change for me. It's really helped me in my business because I don't really take anything personally anymore. I don't really absorb that emotional energy from other people responding in a way that is different to how I would respond. And I think when you get clients saying, you know, that sort of comes on as a realization moment.
Sometimes they go, oh my God, this happened. And previously I would have responded like this and it would have been a massive deal for me. But I've just noticed I responded like this and I got over it in five minutes and I moved on with the rest of my awesome day. And those moments are so priceless when you can help someone to get to that stage. So absolutely.
Yeah, I love that. I don't know why I went off on that track a little bit, but I know exactly what you mean when, you know, you say you got to do that deep work and it does take time to do it. But when you notice your default has changed, it's a really amazing result that you get. So yeah, do you find that with your clients as well? They get that realization moment where they would have responded differently and they're really happy with the way that they were responding now? Yeah. So I had a client about 18 months ago who, similar story to you actually, was taking everything that ever happened a bit personally. And we got to a place through the coaching process, got them to a place where they recognized that actually the responses they were getting were more indicative of that other person.
Criticism always comes from somewhere within. So whenever we criticize anybody, it always comes from somewhere within ourselves, whether we want to admit it or not.
That's the difficult thing. And actually her recognizing that, similar story to you, her recognizing that, she felt, okay, ready to carry on. Well, I got an email from her about three months ago. Can I start up some coaching again? And she said, my mindset has changed so much just by that one phrase, criticism comes from within the other person. She says, it took me so long to get my head around it. She said, it must have taken me a good nine, 10 months to get my head around it. But once I did, oh my God, it's a case of, I want to take this further.
I want to be able to build on this now and be able to move forward. But it took her a long time. And she said, at times I felt really demoralized because I never thought I'd be able to change those thought patterns. But it was only through repeating those thought patterns, creating those neural pathways. Imagine you're walking across a field. You always walk through the well-worn path because you know it's safe. Whereas if you're walking through a cornfield, a corn's head high, you're not going to walk through the bit that might be a bit scary that's above your head.
You're going to walk through the well-worn pathway. Well, our brains do the same. They always go down the well-worn pathway because it's safer. Actually being able to breach off and create a new path is scary to start. It takes time to happen, but then over time, over sort of a month to three to six months, that pathway then becomes as well-worn as the original one and it's such a better pathway to go down. Yeah. I love that. And what I was thinking about when you were talking was, oh my God, my crazy five-year-old little boy, he would not stay to the path.
He would not stick to the path. He would be the first one off in the middle of the corn, not knowing, you know, where he was, not being able to see where he goes. And I think through my backstory of what do you learn from children, that's another thing. Like what would a kid do in this situation who doesn't have that programming that really restricts them? And I guess if we take this back to business and what we learned from business here is, you know, you've got to make your own path. You've got to have that confidence to really step out there with your own passion around, especially if you're a passion-driven business. And what you learn from kids who don't have this layer upon layer of kind of backstory and yeah, belief structure and stuff is just being able to take more risks and have more fun and, you know, not stop yourself. And I think that comes up so much in business.
You know, I'm just not a confident person or I can't do that because of X, Y, and Z. Kids don't have that because they don't have the because, they don't have the backstory. So breaking down people's backstories for them and really helping them change their perspective on it can really help with all of the business things, getting visible online, being authentic in who you are and what drives you and what your business does. All of those things are all sort of down to your backstory as well. So yeah, before we head off, I just want to ask you one last question.
So what's your one tip? If people do find that they struggle with exactly what we've been talking about so far, what's your one tip that is really going to help them? Well, I've got an admission because I've actually added a second one while we've been talking. Apologies. Absolutely. The first one links directly into what we've just been saying and is, ask yourself, what would your inner five-year-old do? Yeah. Yeah. So I do inner child work as well. And one of the things we do in meditation that helps people reintroduce themselves to their inner five-year-old. So my first thing would be, what would my inner five-year-old do?
Think back to what you were like when you were five, climbing trees, chasing after God knows what in the back garden, running through cornfields, wherever it might be. What would your inner five-year-old do? Would they be scared of this situation? And of course, and the other one is the five-second rule. And the reason why it's five seconds is because it takes up to five seconds for the primal brain to step back and the logic brain to step forward. So if you're in a situation that is activating fight, flight, freeze, or fall, or any form of emotional response, just take five seconds. Think about, is this fact or is it just me responding? And that will then engage the logic side of the brain. They're my two tips.
I love that. And yeah, I typically put myself in the place of like, what would my five-year-old little boy do? Because he is a law to himself. He is a bundle of energy. And I quite often think about that.
So I love that. And I think also in terms of the five second, I think it is really, it's really amazing if you just give yourself time to digest what's happening before you respond, because that instinct of responding emotionally is so strong for people. And I love what you said about, is this fact or is this just an emotional response?
Because yeah, that is it fact? Is it not? That again is another massive shift that helps people because again, that can identify beliefs that you have, because that's massive when it comes to belief or is this belief actually a fact? But if is this belief that you have, does everybody else on this planet have exactly the same belief? But if they do, then it's probably a fact. If they don't, then there is some hope that you can change that if you want to.
So that question, like, is it a fact? And being really intentional about just listening to what your brain is telling you rather, I think we're taught in this society, or at least we were back when I was growing up in that kind of generation, just to ignore those things, like ignore those feelings, you know, ignore your inner critic, ignore all the negative things that you think about yourself.
What we're being told now is no, don't do that. Listen to it because it can tell you and it can teach you a really valuable lesson. So yeah, anything you want to chat about before we sum up here, but amazing session.
Thank you so much for being here. What would your summary be? My summary would be at the end of the day, when you react in a situation, remember, you actually can't help it. You can make changes so that you don't react in that way. But our brains are hardwired to keep ourselves safe. And sometimes safety is emotional, not physical. So it's just about remembering that in that moment, you are a passenger to a certain extent, give yourself a pat on the back that you've lived through whatever it is you've lived through.
Give yourself five seconds to ask yourself, is this true? And then take that step forward. Amazing. Yeah. And being kind to yourself, treating yourself the way you would treat a friend, rather than treating yourself like your own worst critic. And that sometimes that takes a while for people to really understand what that phrase means as well. But again, that can make so much difference as well.
Thank you so much for being here with me. Before we go, let people know how they can come into your world and how they can follow you and how they can connect with you. Well, obviously they can do that through Altitude. Yeah, absolutely. They can come through your direction, Jenny. They can follow me.
I'm on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. I'm everywhere. I'm omnipresent. You can find me as Calm Mind Confident Life or as my alter ego, We Restore Calm, either which the handles are the same across all social media.
So they can connect that way. Or they can drop me an email at askforhelp at werestorecalm.com. Amazing. And I will put some links in the show notes so that you can come over and connect with Marie as well. Thank you so much for being here with us today.
Really enjoyed that conversation. I really know that our listeners are first of all going to resonate with a lot of that, but also hopefully find a lot of that helpful as well.
So yeah, thank you so much. And for you listeners, I will see you back here in the next episode of Business Backstage. If you'd like to apply for one of our complimentary strategy calls with one of our amazing coaches to take you through our four-step business acceleration process that we use with our clients inside Altitude, you can now apply for a call at www.jennidonato.com/altitude-strategy-call or through the link in the show notes. I really hope you've enjoyed this episode and we will see you on the next one.